Dalziel Rugby Club

if coaches don't make a big diff, how did wales go from not qualifying from their world cup group to grand slam champions - the only thing that changed was the coaching regime.

hadden had a decent start, but now seems devoid of ideas. yeh it's not all him, but we cannae sack the squad and change could make a diff to results on the pitch.

We havent won the 6Ns at all and the last time we won the 5Ns was 10 years ago. I'm sure we'd all agree that we'd like to see Scotland win something in our lifetime.

Patterson is a prime example of the lack of ambition and pussy footing of Hadden. One of the brightest play makers Scotland have produced given only fleeting opportunities to play in the 10 jersey, while we persist with Parks, the least threatening ball player to put on the jersey in many a year.

Hadden is mediocre but not as bad as Williams is a pants argument for keeping him in post.

I never once said a coach doesnt make a difference but personally i dont think a new coach will make any difference if anything just a slight difference.

You cannot compare us to Wales. The Wales team was the same that won the previous grand slam. There was a big change but that was down to disastorous coaching and players questioning the coach which wont happen under Gatland. However Wales had won a Grand Slam something like 2 years earlier and nearly all the same players were available so Gatland new he had the talent there. Scotland has not had the talent for a long time now, prob since the SA lions tour.

My point is not really around coaching its how far behind Scotland is in terms of professionalism and the gap is only going to increase IMO. I dont think we will see Scotland win anything in our lifetime unless there is a lot of money plowed into the game which to be fair has been the case in the last few years.

Your point about Patterson is he couldnt hold down a position at 10 or 15 at Gloucester never mind at Scotland level. We have no one else and while everyone jumps on his back for being crap and unadventurous Parks is the best option we have to win games. Not to play flamboyent rugby but to win games.

Well who else you got to compare Hadden to really. McGeechan and Telfer had the luxury of being there just after the introduction of professionalism so it was a fairly level playing field. Williams came in and took us to the bottom of the barrel. Hadden has at least done something to salvage it.

Guys,

I think everyone is still missing the point that we just are not good enough.
Out of the 2 line ups on Sat I would only say 2 guys from Scotland would have a chance of playing with Wales at the moment. Blair and Ford.
Just my opinion, but i can't see how we can be expected to win when we are phisically dominated along with poorer skill levels and slower players. All in all Wales have a much larger pool of player to pick from and have a really really pasionate and expecting public behind them. We in reallity don't have any of this and its not something that will change overnight. The grass roots has to change for this to have affect. Kiwi's like our very own Mr Beer keep coming over here to play. Fair enough, but they are taking up positions for younger Scottish guys to develop especially in Prem 1 and 2. The long term effects of this must be huge.

Anyway, hadden did pick the wrong team in my view, but the players out there just didn't step up and be counted. If we had a real go at them and lost because they could score more than us fair do's, but to go out there and go side to side and look clueless is just not acceptable.

Changes need to be made and people need to be dropped. Give guys with creativity a go, can't do any worse!

Rant over!

Thank you Baz that is xactly what I'm saying. We are crap and thinking a new coach will change all that and create success is ludacris.

Eddie Wales had the talented players for a revival we dont.

AndyHill wrote:Thank you Baz that is xactly what I'm saying. We are crap and thinking a new coach will change all that and create success is ludacris.

Eddie Wales had the talented players for a revival we dont.

Anytime my good friend!

so the right coach makes a big difference.

Gatland is a good coach and Mike Ruddock was a good coach - both won Grand Slams with a set of good players. more to the point both got the best out of the players. But Jenkins couldn't get the best out of those players.

Lee Byrne never even went to the world cup because his form and confidence were shot. Under a new coaching regime he's grown into a shoe in for the lions tour.

The players at the disposal of Scotland would still be in the main mediocre by international standards, however a better coach could get a lot more out of them.

Barry's right on the money side of things - you need a better structure up here for players to grow up in and more Scots playing in key positions like 2, 10, 15, 9 and 8. But interest in the game will take a while to grow and the best way to get increased interest is success. A lot of guys my age got into rugby off the back of the Grand Slam in 1990, a surge of interest can come about again with a successful team.

On Paterson it's my view that he was already a spent force when he left for Gloucester, however it could have been different had he been managed better by Edinburgh and Scotland. he was a victim of his versatility.


BTW - this thread is top drawer!

i do agree that the right coach would make a difference, however finding that coach will be hard.
Jake White was hated for ages by SA public, then he became a hero winning world cup. Its all about sucess, no matter who you are, if you don't win you will get slated. Martin Johnston is feeling that at the minute and who would have ever thought that he would be slated by any Englishman.

If hadden gives it a go he will gain some respect, but unless we win games he will never be popular.

I can't think of anyone who could slot into hadden's role just now and perform a miracle as we just don't have the players, but he could gain more respect by picking the form players and being adventurous. People pay to be entertained, not to go home on a Sat after spending £60 per ticket to feel depressed, not by defeat as we were never expected to win, but by the manner of it and the selections made.
If it was close, sure we would all have been gutted, but at least we would be entertained and positive about next matches. Best example of this was France vs Ireland. I thought both teams were very good and was entertaining. Both still have a chance of winning. We have non!

it's amaizing how one game can cause so many discussions btw.

I feel tho that we do have an ok team...or atleast a team who are not doing aswell as they should be!

if you look at the key positions in the team then you have good players in the majority of those positions!

2.ford....8..taylor/hogg/beattie...9.blair/cusiter/lawson.....10.????.....15.southwell/lamont/paterson!!!

so you could choose a gd spine of the team out of all those players and maybe just add jackson in at 10 wen he gits more experienced!

A better coach would choose the spine tht works best then they would also start to add jackson to the squads! no point destroying his confidence atm by adding him to the startin team when they r going backwards!

If we get some of our younger guys in a gd team we will be a force for the world cup...we have barclay at 7. but there is no1 else who is adding there enthusiasm in the game along with him....they aint playing for the shirt anymore!

well that's Hines out - poss for the rest of the 6Ns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 878877.stm

that's no the best

Wonder if Kellock will be given a chance now???

I think it's a good poss now - surely Hadden, et al. must see that france will target the scrum when they look at just how poorly it went against the welsh.

from this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 878877.stm


looks like the squad will be:

1 Jacobsen
2 Ford
3 Dickinson
4 Jason White
5 J.Hamilton
6 Strokosh
7 Barclay
8 Taylor

9 Blair
10 Godman
11 Danielli
12 Morrison
13 M.Evans
14 T.Evans
15 Southwell

Team as follows:
15 Hugo Southwell (Edinburgh)
14 Simon Danielli (Ulster)
13 Max Evans (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors)
11 Thom Evans (Glasgow Warriors)
10 Phil Godman (Edinburgh)
9 Mike Blair (Edinburgh) CAPTAIN
1 Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh)
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh)
3 Alasdair Dickinson (Gloucester)
4 Jason White (Sale Sharks)
5 Jim Hamilton (Edinburgh)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester)
8 Simon Taylor (Stade Francais)
7 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)

Substitutes
16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Kelly Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
19 Scott Gray (Northampton Saints)
20 Chris Cusiter (Perpignan)
21 Chris Paterson (Edinburgh)
22 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh)

Travelling with the party: 23 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) and 24 Dan Parks (Glasgow Warriors)

Not considered due to injury: Dave Callam (Edinburgh), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh), Nathan Hines (Perpignan), Rory Lamont (Sale Sharks), Matt Mustchin (Edinburgh), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh), Nikki Walker (Ospreys), Simon Webster (Edinburgh)

Wahey, we are changing the team. Did someone grow some balls????

Still think Jacobson is a waste of space though.

This will be a tough ask up front, but at least we are changing things in some area's.

looks like mr hadden has bowed to pressure - but it's more like the team i'd pick.

still think white is too wee for international lock though